It is funny to think that LFR can grant players “progress”.
Strict progression is typically for normal and especially for hard-mode guilds, who are focused not only the hardest content, but also getting through the hardest content faster than their peers. Server rankings, kill times/strats, and sometimes even achievement points are ranked against each other to see who is first, and who is the best. LFR however is generally accepted as being easy, or scrub mode.
I ran a lot of LFR this week and was able to kill each boss in the current tier in LFR raids. It took more than the four nominal run through, as sometimes I joined mid way through, or the groups disbanded amid the raid.
That does not at all mean though that LFR does not have a place in terms of “progress”. Perhaps it is just progress for me, but I think there is merit in the system.
Example A: Wrathion’s collect 20x widgets and 40x bars of do-dad quest. The widgets might drop from boss kills in LFR as well as normal and hard mode, which means that LFR is an ideal place to get these quickly. I guess they have an approx 1 in 3 or 1 in 4 chance to drop based upon how many I have at the moment. The bars of do-dad are just something you either buy or farm, simple stuff. Expensive if you’ve not been planning ahead.
Good that LFR helps with part of this quest.
Why is this progress? Because at the end of the quest you get a gem which is standout fantastic for whatever you use it for. Raiders would be mad to skip this (duh).
Example B: You can gear through LFR just like normals, so use the LFR to try to get upgrades that you’ve missed elsewhere (duh).
I’ve now got 3x LFR tier items and one normal Tier which means I’ve now got the 4x set bonus. I’ve also got a number of other LFR level items which I’m using to try and keep up with the rest of our guild’s raid team. Without those lucky drops and repeat grinding the LFR each week I’d have much less nice things.
Yes, it is not at all a real replacement for proper gear (ilevel 522+) but sometimes beggars can’t be choosers. So a little stretch to call it progress, and it is hardly progression, but it can help.
…..and now onto the perception of LFR is easy or scrub mode…..
I read in chat this last week a hell of a lot of characters requesting that other characters get booted from the LFR run. In terms of progress, LFR can also be a place to learn and to scrape by. The characters where suspect for a range of reasons; for being:
- AFK (fair, the people are not helping anyone and often hurt everyone)
- Lousy at their role (hmm, not sure on this, where do you learn then?)
- Not following simple instructions (fair, after a warning or two)
- Being a total bastard or beyond rude (fair, get out of my raid chump)
- Pranking the raid through pulls/wipes (fair, like the rude guy above, but I hope you also get a nasty STD in the near future)
I dislike LFR being a place where mistakes are not allowed, particularly if when it is other players deciding who is terrible and who is wonderful.
A fight like Drumu-su-ru-blu-lu-smoo the Forgotten (who names these bosses anyway?) is an absolute mongrel for a new player who has not seen it, and a bastard for folks who are still learning. It reminds me of the Heigan Dance from Naxxramas, although I think this fight is actually harder as the positioning to start is not as obvious. Many players including myself failed in the first attempt to walk the right path through the maze of purple on the floor.
That maze is dastardly hard to view sometimes, and is made far worse when the boss’s attacks also change the floor. Good design? Maybe, it is challenging. Great for FLR? No, as it makes simple mistakes cost everyone, and acts as a catalyst for bastards in raid to call others out as fails.
As a tip: the outside maze is easier to follow. If you are having trouble with the melee and mid pathway, then run to the outer pathway – it is a cake walk by comparison.
In our second attempt where the boss actually died I was one of five players left alive, and that was only due to my own personal healing cool-downs and abilities to survive. It was only my DoT spells which did damage for much of the second maze phase, as I had to run well out of melee range to stay alive.
Again good design? Maybe. I like the fight a lot, but I also hate that part of it. Hard to do and fun to beat.
I also dislike people who just want to be carried by others, and say “lolz lfr” when asked to step up a bit.
Yesterday I saw a Balance Druid, Ret Paladin, and Shadow Priest doing less than 10k dps in the LFR run and was disgusted. The Paladin was doing around 4k, which must have been almost all auto-attack damage. When asked he said he was still learning. Total bullshit. Was that guy a scrub? Yes, probably. I voted to kick him and was glad when he was replaced.
What is acceptable dps for an LFR run anyway? Hmm, tricky question.
I’d say 60k or higher and you’re fine regardless of the fight. Yes, players doing 100+k are out there, but most characters I see are doing between 65-85k. If you are doing 39k or less, then something is probably wrong (poor pvp gear, never seen the fight, lost in the spell effects, afk?).
If you are doing less than 20k then you’re being carried and probably not trying all that hard. For sub 39k the players need to learn more. For those in the sub-20k collection, you need to leave and practice elsewhere.
If you “lolz” and such I think you deserve to be carried in a scenario, not in a raid. Any raid. I can carry a poor player in a normal scenario without a stress and probably not add too much time.
Perhaps the point I’m trying to make is that LFR is the start of progress. a beginning of getting better. Progress for casuals? Sure. And filler for the serious guys? maybe that too.
Happy killing, TyphoonAndrew
- LFR Fun and Loot (typhoonandrew.wordpress.com)
- Two Views On The “Ghetto” Of LFR (mmomeltingpot.com)
- Thoughts on the Apparent Lack of Healers in LFR (paladinsstolemybubbles.wordpress.com)
- LFR Shenanigans (tatianamik.wordpress.com)
There are only a few things I’ll actually request a kick for (politely, mind you, I’ll point out the issue, mention that I’ve voting to kick and let the chips fall where they may, generally they get kicked).
* AFK is my number one kick reason, especially if the AFKer contributes to a wipe (without that I normally won’t notice an AFK). Related to this are serial suiciders. Also, anyone who brags about their dps position “while AFKing” (auto-attacking) at the end of the fight deserves an extra kick. Kick+. I want an option for that.
* DPS doing sub-20K, IF we’re having wipes that are at least somewhat caused by low dps. I only even look at the lower end of the meters if we’re dying due to what I think are dps-related issues.
* Incompetent/malicious tanking. This is obviously a personal opinion kind of call but I’m tired of new tanks in LFR expecting to be told what to do and then not being capable of doing it &/or learning on the fly. If “taunt at 4 stacks” or “turn the boss away from the raid” isn’t something you’re capable of dealing with as basic mechanics, you either need to learn the fight in another role first, paying attention to tank mechanics (I do this as a dps/healer all the time even though I refuse to tank LFR so I don’t even do it with any real purpose, I just like knowing what can blow us up) or do some presearch before queuing as a tank on that fight. Bonus kick points for malicious tanks, those who tank Tsulong facing the beam the entire time… who rotate Lei Shi to the biggest group of melee for no reason… who pull on Sha of Fear when they’re the only tank…
* Healers who are full-time dpsing and cause a wipe… I don’t mind if they dps soft phases as long as they heal when it’s necessary but when we wipe to mechanics and I’m only seeing 3 people actually healing, I’m calling out the other 3. I’m also talking down whoever blamed the wipe on “crap dps” because someone inevitably will despite having 3 extra dpsers in the group.
* People intentionally going against the determined strategy and causing a wipe… Dark Animus single-target strat, for example, you usually get 3 or 4 people AoEing who break that strategy pretty hard, repeat offences are kickable if there are multiple wipes as a result. Yes, the AoE strat can work but needs to be planned for.
* Anything that results in me putting in a ticket. I don’t do this often in LFR runs but it happens occasionally.
You’re right about Durumu, my first few toons on that fight were all melee so subsequent toons went through the melee path as well but I’ve always had issues finding fully clear spots in the melee path, makes it challenging on toons without much in the way of self-healing… plus all of the puddles that gets dropped up there (moving is hard, yo, as is ranged actually standing out at range during the normal phases). My hunter was at the back during one attempt while dropping a puddle (I normally drop under the boss but wasn’t sure I’d get there that time) so I tried the back path… holy hell was it easier to see, there was actually a clear path. Fully clear. In melee it seems the best route is the one that has the least dense squigglies. The only issue I ran into at range was run speed, you have to full-out sprint when you’re out there since you move considerably slower compared to the beam than you do in the melee group. The openings do show up earlier so you can do it but I had to re-train myself a bit to stay a lot further ahead of the beam than I do in melee. I would say while learning, even on a melee toon, do the ranged path… once you’re comfy and can keep yourself alive in the melee path while doing some dps, transition to the melee group… but only when you’re ready.
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