Badge trade-in value vs Content

So a Conquest badge can be downgraded to others, but that means they have a 1 to 1 value on the lower ilevel gear, so why would you? Getting a small upgrade from a 213 item that costs tokens that can buy 226 is rough. And sooner or later the patch 3.3 will be released and we’ll see Triumph badges instead of Conquest from heroic runs. The heroic badge gear is basically dead now, and it will become even more dead soon. That lower gear might actually still be usable though, which means you’re spending expensive badges to get lower gear.

For the casuals (like myself) this means that the time I spent grinding out Conquest badges is somewhat wasted when the Triumph badges replace them. I know this is a leg up for raiding, and it also facilitates content for more people – but I think its flawed at the moment.

It does not make total sense to me, as the effort involved in getting to a nice set of 226 gear in many gear locations is not a small task. You really have to work at it and run heroics a lot. Then when the switch to 3.3 happens the casuals go back to running the same content for slightly better gear. Opportune moments will see them in the new content now and then, but nothing changes really. Perhaps they might be well geared enough to then try ToC’s last few bosses, and some of the end of Ulduar. So casuals don’t actually see much in the way of new content, instead they spend longer in the same old runs. Any way you look at it the fast track to upgrades will involve grinding heoric 5 mans, and that content is not even close to new.

There has to be a better way to get more folks into the later content. I know it is not fair to just boost these players up too quickly, as it slaps the more serious players in the face, and sends a bad message. I also know that Blizzard wants us to keep playing, and a prime driver for playing is seeing new places, bosses, content, etc. Its a Catch-22, and I have no 100% solution.

The degree to which this makes sense to you as a player probably relates to where you are in the content. Folks already clearing Uld 25 and ToC 25 probably don’t care what happens to the old heroic runs, except the daily. Folks who don’t care what they run, or are leveling new toons are not affected either. The middle ground is where this takes affect, and they are a very hard area to design a challenge for, especially when everyone else can also make use of any perks/nurfs placed on these mid range players. You can’t offer too much without upsetting everything.

An idea would be if badges are more valuable as they get rarer, then perhaps the items that are purchasable with heroism, should also have a purchase value in the other badges too. In this way a badge of Conquest would buy a few Heroism, getting the lower items faster – and that seems to be the goal here: to get folks with average or low gear to the point where they can compete in the new content. eg, 1 Conquest buys 5 Heroism, 1 Triumph buys 5 Conquest. and so on as they are upgraded (so 1 Tri = 25 Hero, but do you really care if somebody has 25 H-badges quickly when you compare iLevel 213 to 232-245). This way the really old gear gets used quickly, but only for a short period of time, and the grind is still the same for the really nice badge reward items. Sustain the grind at the top end of the badge reward system, but make the lower end faster to gear through.

Consider that we we’re getting badges from 5 mans anyway now, so spending the time to get an item which takes 10-12 runs to get, should not matter if that is any type of badge. Its still a major upgrade for 10-12 runs of a basic instance, and possibly a minor upgrade too, but not to gear that is going to break the system by being devalued, as it is already devalued by the better gear. 

I’m torn between the view that this is making the gear too accessible, and the opinion that this will help reset the playing field.


12 thoughts on “Badge trade-in value vs Content

  1. I think the big picture of the matter is that blizz wants gear to be gated, but not really. Only current tier gear gated.

    How can we do this?

    Simple – bring the crafters back into play.

    I see there being a possibility of having just TWO tiers of badges in the next xpack, and it will make more sense.

    First, lets say, emblems of uber. Uber emblems will be used to purchase starter gear, both PvP and PvE equivalent to the beginning raid. They are also used to purchase orbs (think frozen, runed, crusader). They drop from heroics ONLY.

    Then there are emblems of aweseome. Awesome emblems can be used to purchase high end crafting recepies – that also have mats to be farmed out in heroics (think old school scholomance runs, but not nearly as grindy).
    Each time a new tier of items is added, more recipies are added. Awesome emblems are only able to drop from the weekly raid, daily heroic, and CURRENT tier of content.

    Here is the catch – in order for the gating mechanism to work, players would not be able to horde these emblems. Make a maximum of 5 more than the highest recipe cost be the cap. Any more, and they are automatically converted down to emblems of uber at a 1 for 2 exchange.

  2. IMHO they should have retained a single type of badge and just had badge gear from later patches cost more and more.

    I think you should get twice as many (2:1) of the next lower badge type instead of 1:1.

    Gobble gobble.

  3. @BobTurkey – If the badge gear just increases in price then casuals need to run even more of the same content to get an upgrade, which is a sadistic waste of energy. That would make casuals quit, which is against the revenue stream.

    @FireSpirit – Using the crafters makes a lot of sense! Releasing new patterns offers changes in professions and gear, and buying them with tokens (like the fishing tokens) is smart. They can then control the flow of the tokens, and there-by control the access to gear.

    Only downfall is that its very easy to share gear then, which means one person gets a pattern and then most folks they know now have access to the item.

  4. What’s casual vs. hardcore got to do with anything? I consider myself to be ‘hardcore’ – I log on every day for about 45 minuted to do my heroic daily, my fishing daily, and my cooking daily. I raid for 9 hours a week (3 days x 3 hours a day) – and generally we have all the content we’re working on cleared in one day. I PvP for no more than 5 hours a week, and Arena for about 2.

    So that means I spend about…20 or 22 hours a week playing the game.

    How long do you spend playing?

    The badge gear is designed to give you a leg up in getting into the later raids – not gear you equal to them. Right now you can (if you burn hard) earn about 54 badges a day from heroics (running every heroic) plus another 50 or so from raiding pre-Ulduar content (10 and 25). In that time you’d also get the upgrades you need to get into Ulduar raiding – and gear that is equivalant to Uld gear for getting into ToC raids.

    But lets say you don’t have time to run all the heroics in a day. Let’s say you can only run two – the two dailys. Average badge drop is 4 badges per Heroic (yes, some are 3, but some are 5), so in your two runs per day you’ll get an average of 10 Conquest badges, and 2 Triumph badges (2 extra from the daily). The most expensive item from Conquest badges is 75, so you can buy one expensive item a week. If you add in one Naxx (15?), one Sarth (4), and one Malygos (2?), plus one VoA (3) – all 10 man – you now have 93 conquest badges. Three pieces of T8.5 gear in 2 weeks. All for about an hour a day, and maybe 8 hours of raiding.

    It doesn’t get much easier than that. You just have to find a guild that you can run ToC with – or have your guild do this and you’ll be in ToC in a month.

  5. @ Adgamorix. Casual vs Hardcore has many meanings. What I meant by casual is to do with the time the player has to spend in game. A more casual player spends less time in game, and therefore can’t farm instances as much as you suggest, and also raid.

    My circumstance is I play 2 nights a week, and those are both raid nights. This means I sometimes get to do a 5 man before or after a raid, but generally I don’t. Sometimes I might do an extra instance run on the weekend if I’m not busy. Its adds up to about 8-9 hours a week. The extra activity outside the raid is to make money for repairs and mats for the raids. I use use a Herbalist/Alchemist toon as a farmer for flasks, and play the AH for money. The money I make is slightly more that the raid repairs so I am slowing increasing my overall gold pool.

    A while ago I was spending 22-30 hours a week playing, and it feels like a totally different game when you can spend that much time. The way you consider time changes. Runs seem easier to get, rewards come far more quickly, and the group of dedicated player you can build around you makes playing very enjoyable.

    You’ve raised a point that resonates with me; that finding the right guild is paramount to a successful experience. I hate to say that my guild may not be a good fit at the moment. My guild is raiding Uld25 in the two nights, and is struggling to kill much beyond the first two bosses. This means that I don’t often see upgrades, and the time is basically a wipe-fest. For some players even the loot from FL and XT is an upgrade, so we continue. We did kill Ignis finally, and I think Kologarn will drop soon.

    I’d rather be doing Ony10/25, ToC10/25, VoA10/25 and then maybe Uld10/25 as a fall back. It would be quicker improvements in gear, and more conducive to my times; but then I’d be leaving a guild where they are appreciative of my time and energy.

  6. You make some very good points here, I’d like to contribute my two cents. As you know, I’m raiding progression content (we just downed H25 Jaraxus btw!) and I’ve found the badge changes have made my life as a raider even harder. To raid progression content the ideal is that you are squeezing as much as possible out of your toon right? And with the badge changes that means that if I am working as hard as I can I need to run the heroic daily every day to get badges plus do ToC 10s where I can so I can gear up asap. Add to this the required farming for mats and gold for repairs/gear enhancement… that’s more time than I want to commit to just playing for raiding. Thankfully I’m now pretty well geared so I’m not feeling the pressure so much and to be honest I just wasn’t willing to put the in the extra time. I like to play my alts, or PVP, or just generally play pretty casually during the week and keep my srs bsns game face for our weekly raid. It meant that my DPS dipped below the bar for a little while there though which had me feeling under pressure since you don’t want to feel like you’re holding the raid back. But some nice drops & tier items plus a respec (Marksman!) and I’m back to feeling like I’m a contributing member of the raid.

    I’ve been levelling my little lolock Synestre lately and I am loving playing a lock!

    Anyway I’m rambling, just wanted to provide an alternative point of view. I don’t think the badge changes worked that much in favour of anyone really.

  7. “If the badge gear just increases in price then casuals need to run even more of the same content to get an upgrade, which is a sadistic waste of energy. That would make casuals quit, which is against the revenue stream.”

    No that is not true, because they are also making the raids more and more casual friendly. So casuals will have the same access as everyone else.

    Gobble gobble.

  8. Problem with making casuals do 5 mans like that is that they never really get time to see the content properly. It takes months of casual play to get a good set of upgrades, and then you dont have long before the thing you want to raid is old. So casuals see only the early few bosses, and then start farming badges again.

    I know this can be true, because soon it will happen to me. Now I might be a very small percentage of the wow population – so not a huge need, but seesh; that does not make it less frustrating.

  9. @typhoonandrew

    Define “see the content properly”.

    I know of several guilds that are just now cracking in Uld, and slowly threading in ToC 10 regular as they go. They have no plans or desires to do H ToC, or any of the hard modes in Uld. They progress at their own pace – and enjoy themselves along the way.

    My guild on the other hand – we killed Anub the first night he was available – and the next night on Heroic.

    Nobody in my guild farms anything. We work as a collective unit of 10 people for one common goal – eradicate the content as quickly as possible.

    Theory crafted out a way to do more DPS? Take guild money and do it. Short on flasks? Zerg to Freya and take her stuff. The only reason I fish at all is I need something to do between BGs on off nights.

    If your guild is short on funds – take those patterns and BoEs you find in your raids and sell them on the AH.

    I also completely disagree that it takes months to get the upgrades. This was true in BC and Vanilla – definately not true in Wrath.

    @Typhoon – My advice would be to change guilds then, as it sounds like this one isn’t right for you. Your hours of wipes would be better spent running heroics or Naxx, and working on getting the emblems needed to get into ToC. Also – the progression rules have changed – ToC is, in my opinion, easier than Uld (keepers anyway) especially Uld hard modes.

  10. “So a Conquest badge can be downgraded to others, but that means they have a 1 to 1 value on the lower ilevel gear, so why would you? Getting a small upgrade from a 213 item that costs tokens that can buy 226 is rough.”

    You forget one major reason to downgrade your badges to Emblems of Heroism (and the only thing I currently use Conquest emblems for anyway): Epic Gems. Most can be had for 10 emblems, and the best ones (the pure colour red and blue) can be had for 20 emblems each. These same gems can all be purchased for 10k honour as well.

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  12. @ Wingot, the gems might be available, but 200g is worth more than 10 old badges. I’d happily pay 10-15g for a current badge, but not for an older badge. And the gems are very prolific, I get mine from my Alchemist alt.

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