Rather be pugging than helping mates? (rant)

DaggerIts a shame, but after a Ulduar run with some mates, I’d rather be puging. It will most likely be the last run I do with them, at least without saying I want an equal roll on loot.

As back story: I’ve known some of these guys for quite a while and are mates with a few in real life.

When the opportunity to do 5 mans comes up, I don’t hesitate. They’re a solid set of gamers who all have a good attitude and spirit. But on Guild runs there is a policy of only giving loot to the extra folks if a guild member does not want it. Which is rotten for the pugger (me), but most of the time I don’t want the loot anyway. Historically I’ve been past over at least 10 times. Most of the time they’re doing things that I’m past, and I’m there for fun and the odd badge. So generally this is OK. I don’t sweat it.

Until I join them in an Ulduar progression runs. They’re learning, and have not done much of the Ulduar content yet. We are all wiping, we all use mats, flasks, feasts, etc. We all have repair bills. Then an item drops that is an upgrade for three people, and I win the roll, but it is assigned to a guildie instead. Well bugger me, now I feel like a sucker for coming along.

To put it another way – if they had pug’ed that 10th spot, they would have had to share openly on rolls. That means that a stranger has better chance of loot with them than somebody they’ve know for ages and has helped them in the past. That is why I’m miffed.

My lesson is to now speak up front with their GM, and state that no loot means no run for me from now on, and wish them luck. The worst that can happen is that they say they’d rather run 9, or wait for a guildie, in which case I save gold on wipes and pug something else.

(I know, a loot drama post. But its been a while; and its the basis of most wow threads)

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12 thoughts on “Rather be pugging than helping mates? (rant)

  1. Yeah all ways set loot rules before you start a raid with pugs. I hate bringing pugs in on guild runs people all ways get upset.

  2. “But on Guild runs there is a policy of only giving loot to the extra folks if a guild member does not want it.”

    That’s an awful policy.

    I understand the guild’s perspective, to an extent: it can be really frustrating to wipe for two or three weeks on a new encounter, only to lose loot to someone who PuG’d into the encounter at the 11th hour. But that doesn’t seem to be the case here — and even if it were, I still think it’s the guild’s responsibility to either (1) treat PuG’s fairly, by giving them an equal opportunity to win loot, or (2) deal with whatever internal issues left them short-handed for the night so they can fill the raid with guildies.

    We use EPGP for guild runs, but if even one PuG is present, then our PuG loot rules kick in. Basically, we let everyone who is interested in an item for main-spec /roll on it. If a guidlie wins, then the item is awarded according to our internal rules (which means that the guildie who won the roll may or may not receive the item).

    If the PuG wins, they win. Period.

    A few of my guild members have complained that this system works in the PuG’s favor rather than the guild’s. Maybe it does — but if so, then the solution is to avoid situations where we have to PuG in the first place.

    And in the case of guild “friends” who aren’t actually in the guild — someone in your situation, for example — we will make sure to add them to our loot system. Anyone who runs with us with any consistency gets Effort Points, just like a guildie would.

  3. That totally sucks. Well you know what I’ll say, I always say the same thing…. I know this really nice guild on another server who have a loot system that seems to keep everyone happy….

    πŸ˜€ πŸ˜›

  4. @Jeanos – I agree, and I’ll take responsibility for making my expectations clear in the future. I wasn’t thinking.

    @Elleiras – I’d be happy to be added to their loot system, except they don’t have one. Its a lesson I’ll remember, and honestly I should have known from previous runs that it might happen.

    The loot systems will value a casual attendee too, which is smart I suppose. This guild also has a regular set of guys who can’t always attend runs, or as sometimes too stuffed to play. That is why they don’t regularly field the same set of 10 toons.

    @Jez – hmm, if I can hack a ay to get a transfer free, then maybe. But otherwise my regular Guild Ulduar runs are still good. If we can get enough progress through the week we can be working on Yogg. Pretty excited.

    Also – They did give me an Abyss Crystal for my efforts, which was a nice gesture. I have to keep in mind they are a great crew of guys.

    (adding you guys to my feed reader now too)

  5. That’s a terrible way to run a pug. Some folks in my guild usually run a Naxx25 pug for alts and whatnot on Saturday and it’s important to make loot rules equal for guildies and non-guildies.

  6. You’ve been used. I’m glad you finally realized it and will act accordingly in the future so it won’t go on. Lesson learned.
    /hugs

  7. @ Larisa, maybe used, but not with wicked intent, and as they’re mates I can be up front going forward and still do runs. I would expect so anyway.

    An experience where I learn (or re-learn) something is valuable, even if frustration was involved. Or that is what the desk calendar is saying.

  8. Okay, I know nothing about this (and from a position of ignorance, I can see why they have that system but it still strikes me as tremendously unfair) but, for what it’s worth, I can understand why you got yourself into the situation, while recognising its unfairness and inherent frustrations.

    Maybe I’m being overly generous but it doesn’t seem to me like they’re “using” you as such – it’s just you’re occupying the strange social “friend” space. I’ve often noticed that being friends with someone is a guarantee of priority etc. but also, forgive the cynicism, a dispensation for them to treat you less well than they might other people. “It doesn’t matter if I’m late, he’s my friend, he’ll understand.”

    Obviously this works in both directions and relying on friends to understand and forgive is an important part of friendship – but it’s very easy for that reliance to bleed into actual neglect or mistreatment. And, equally, because you’re “a friend” you don’t necessarily interpret it as such until some time after you would if someone else had treated you that way. And it’s very easy to condemn yourself for stupdity afterwards.

    Sorry this verbose and rambling, and I’m probably over-thinking πŸ™‚ But, yeah, in short, I hope you don’t feel too frustrated with yourself and I wish you much phat loot in future runs πŸ™‚

  9. @Tamarind – I think you’ve got a good handle on it, and I’m certainly wiser for it. btw – best blog name I’ve read in a while Tamarind, and chicken avatar wins.

  10. Loot is the only reason to run instances.
    It’s the only form of character development that WoW offers once you hit the level cap so you have every right to feel aggreaved.

    IMO it’s even worse that some of these people are your friends.

    If you want to give the alt a shot at some gear have a chat in guild and see if you can bring the toon to the first few bosses.

  11. @Rakarth, I’d even go as far to say that gear is the only character progression even at low levels. You’re only adding levels to allow access to different content, which drops better gear. Although not an overly optimistic perspective, it could be considered true.

    The aspect of character development that I also like and somewhat recognise is story. WoW is very limited in this regard. I suppose the barber shop allows for some change. πŸ™‚

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