The BRK has a post about using crowd control with a Paladin Tank, and while I posted my response over there, I feel it should also be made public in my own blog too.
He presents a reader email who is asking about Paladin Tanks who like to use CC like traps, etc. The community response is just annoying, and demonstrates why so many people keep using the phrase Huntard.
The email goes:
BRK … I have a question related to trapping on a three-man pull when the tank is a paladin. I would usually pull my mob off to the side where my trap has been set but I really struggle to pull aggro off the tank in this scenario due to the Tankadin pulling with Avenger’s Shield, which hits all three mobs. Is there a different strategy to be used when trapping with a tankadin? Waynebow & Cuddles
And the response from BRK is:
Yes, there is absolutely a different paradigm about crowd-control with a Paladin tank: Don’t.
Tankadins believe crowd control is a waste of time.
Tankadins relish tanking multiple mobs.
Tankadins break crowd-controls as a matter of personal honor.
Tankadins think you and your silly trapping should just shut the F-up about him using his Avenger’s Shield and just kill stuff like you’re designed to do.
Our recommendation? Oblige him.
Sorry BRK, you just made my job as a Paladin tank harder. Every quasi-bad hunter and new player just got a single, simple to apply rule that is totally misleading. This appears initially right, pallys love threat, love getting hit, and don’t need as much CC as other tanks – all true.
And yes, you should always follow the instructions of a Tank when doing a run, its the markers job, and that’s usually the Tank.
However CC is critical to a fast, effective, and efficient run. Its the skill of knowing when to use it and how that matters. Its the same as learning how to pull; its a long time before you do it right, and sometimes you’ll see something new that makes you really stop and think.
My advice to Hunters and requests for their CC is: Stop and Think. In fact that is my advice to everyone, but especially Hunters after the BRK article does the rounds.
You might still need CC as a Prot Pally, if there are too many mobs in the pull to survive the inbound damage until the mobs start dying. Mgt is a good example of this, or while you’re tanking your way to 70, or when a player disconnects, or when somebody does something stupid, etc….
CC is a must for everyone to learn, not just the CC’ers, not just the Tanks; everyone.
Juniper said in reponse to BRK’s post:
If a paladin demands that you do CC, you’re in a party with a bad paladin.
No, just No! I’d like to take that player out to the woodshed and hit him with some 2×4.
How/when/why takes a lot of explaining, and is often altered by the group composition. A pally tank might order traps if the healer’s gear is not up to the task. Or if the group lacks a wide composition of classes, in which case your buff options are reduced and therefore you need to be careful about how you do the instance.
eg. I did a run with myself as Pally Tank, x3 Hunters, and a pally healer. I insisted on a few traps every now and then, especially when one pull could easily grab the next set due to runners. We went smothly through that run; no deaths, no bad pulls, and a lot of happy chat in /P.
Contrary had another gem of gross generalisation:
Ugh…I have grouped with tankadins who demanded me to trap. I explain to them that I cannot pull aggro and they turn it around and insult me saying ‘No other hunter has ever had that problem’, (I guess they don’t group with many hunters!). My usual response is to ask them if they’ve ever played a hunter, their answer is silence.
No Contrary, I don’t play a Hunter, but I play a 70 paladin, 70 warlock, 60s druid, 40s mage rogue warrior, and have experimented with shaman priest past 25s. Why not find out the Paladin’s strat, and see if you learn something.
Lerta did raise something that some tanks don’t know:
I was on my alt healing a group in Sethekk Halls. The pally, a guildie, was marking and we had a rogue and a mage to CC. After the pally marked to two cc targets, he tossed his shield and it hit all the targets not marked for CC.
At first I thought he was just getting lucky or throwing at the right mob to bounce the right way. But every time he threw that shield it never touched the two CC targets.
I asked him afterward how he was able to be so exact with his shield and all he told me was that it did it by itself. I don’t know if this was some pally trick that the keep among themselves or if it was just luck.
The Tank Frisbee will chain between targets in a semi-reliable way. This means that if you target the foremost target, it will link to the next nearest 2 mobs. This means that you can designate a trap target who will not be damaged by the shield. It will now not break Sap, so you can use a Rogue to shutdown a mob (casters) and then burn through the melee.
This means that their is a dangerous art to picking your targets, and most of the time you’ll get it spot on after a lot of practice.
Edit: A poster on BRK named Harmun helped me realise that I wasn’t altogether clear on how CC and marking works.
Are you forgetting something from the typhoonandrew response BRK? If you mark a target for CC, avenger’s shield will skip it.
Nope, marking a target does nothing more than just pop a symbol above the monster’s head. I wish it were true that a mark had influence, but alas we still must do it the old fashioned way.
However some CC will skip, others will break instantly when hit by the Shield. Sap or Sheep will not break, but a trap would. That only helps too if the Sap or Sheep is already in place when you use the Avengers Shield. Typically a AvShield will be used to initiate the pull.
In Mgt I can see a use, Sap a caster, Sheep pull with the mage who runs like heck behind the Paladin. Pally Consecrates and AvShields which loads up on threat, but does not break the Sap or Sheep.
Edit: For more great stuff that I’d shamefully rip off if my morals were a bit slacker; read Evilsheep’s post on Tanks, DPS, and Healers.